THE FOLLOWING statement by a reader will land me in trouble with my critics from the men’s advocacy blogosphere. I post it anyway. [See the comments by a reader who says the sort of praise Randy expresses for women is rarely, if ever, publicly expressed by women for men.]

Randy B. writes:

Granted, most if not all of the points and topics brought up on your site are valid, and largely self-supporting to the logical mind. But I want to take a minute and say thank you, not only to my wife and daughters, to you for this site and quest, but to most women in general. 

Regardless of all the things that are or are not fair, or how anyone feels, women have the much harder row to hoe. Women are 95 percent (like most stats) of the equation responsible for the continuation of our species. There is not a man on the face of the planet that could handle the pain I witnessed from my wife during two of our three children (one was a C-section). I personally would rather have my man parts stretched the length and width of a football field, then go through what she did for hours. Women are historically responsible for holding a household together, and in the unfortunate situation where the husband is unemployed and the wife has to work (in most of the cases I know of) the man still does not help out. In my case my wife is the primary educator. My kids have attended a church school since middle school, so they have loads of homework. I have tried to help in the tutelage, but seem to either be unable because of patience or attention span, while my wife charges ahead when my head would explode. A version of this sentiment has been echoed for years by many of my friends. In the following situation I don’t know how my experience measures up; at our house I will vacuum, I help with dishes (dishwasher), I am the one who sews, I share in the cooking, and from time to time I do the laundry. In spite of the fact I contribute, my wife easily carries the majority of the in-house duties. 

I personally believe the disparity in maturity between women and men is between 10-15 years at the age of 18, and with any luck starts to normalize somewhere in the 40’s. [Laura writes: Yikes! This is disturbing news. The average man may not be fully mature until he is elderly.] This is the single most important difference between men and women. If it were not for this disparity there is nothing that would provide the patience required to tolerate, and in many cases train a man to be worthy of the marriage a woman so gracefully entered into. There have been several times during my life were I would have ended up dead or locked up were it not for my wife being there telling me to sit. 

Since mine is the only picture for which I have a pretty complete recognition, I use it as an example. To you ladies I tip my hat, not once, but every day in gratitude for all you do. You are the foundation upon which we all build our futures, and for that we (men & children) love and respect you. 

Women might be from Venus, but men are from Uranus, and that’s a long way from Mars.

[In a follow-up post here, Randy says the 95 percent figure above refers to the woman’s contribution to reproduction, the physical creation of a child.]

Laura writes:

“[A]t our house I will vacuum, I help with dishes (dishwasher), I am the one who sews, I share in the cooking, and from time to time I do the laundry. In spite of the fact I contribute, my wife easily carries the majority of the in-house duties.”

That is commendable. I don’t believe I have ever seen a man sew.

Michael S. writes:

You wrote:

“I don’t believe I have ever seen a man sew.”

What about male tailors?

I can’t sew worth a damn. I learned a long time ago that it’s simply not worth it for me to try to hem my own trousers. (Of course, I have never owned a sewing machine, so maybe that’s the problem.) Even sewing a button back on to a shirt is an ordeal for me.

Kristor writes:

I write to second Randy B. I sew, too; also I knit, and once I even crocheted: poorly. These are useful skills for an outdoorsman, or a sailor. When I was a whitewater guide, I was a bit of both, and had to be ready to sew a boat, a sail or a patch of living skin at a trice, if the need arose; even my own skin, so I learned to sew one-handed on stabilized work. My greatest accomplishment in that area was sewing birch bark with spruce roots. You never knew when that might come in handy! 

In my house, I am the one who actually does most of the day to day housework, but that’s only because I am an insane raving neatnik, who puts away a kitchen tool the instant my wife sets it down – drives her nuts.

I disagree with Randy B. in one respect. While I find that my wife exerts an admirable restraint upon my temper, there have been times when she has not been able to understand why I have not taken an insult as adequate grounds for physical combat. All I could tell her was, “you have never been in combat.” The reason that only men should be Foreign Secretaries is that, no matter how many women they admit to the armed services, when it really hits the fan it will be the men who do most of the fighting, and dying.

Laura writes:

Men who are avid housekeepers tend to conceptualize tasks. They systematize, categorize and order. This has a certain amount of charm to it, and I don’t mean to be ungrateful, but it’s annoying from a feminine perspective. It slows things down, gums up the works with too much concentration. My husband creates a masterpiece of logical order every time he loads the dishwasher. It takes much longer than what I do, which is throw everything in. He maintains that the dishes get cleaner the way he does it, and that you can fit more in when you take the time to stack them properly, but I am not convinced. I know quite a few couples in which the dishwasher is a domestic frontline for the same reason.

I used to be baffled by why men seem so much slower at housework; I now think this is a major reason. They are trying to figure out a system, like a boy building a castle with Legos. They are architects, not housekeepers. Most women, even those who are extremely neat, don’t create abstract plans as they work. If they were domestic strategists, the world would fall apart within a matter of hours. Similar disaster would ensue from the failure of men to conceptualize.

When a couple works side-by-side, these two styles often clash. This is another reason why I say that most women don’t even want the feminist dream of equally shared housework (though Kristor’s situation in which a man does all of the work does sound enviable.). Men focus on the outdoor projects and women on the indoor, so they can stay away fom each other.

Janet writes:

Oh gosh! Is that why it takes my husband all day to clean out a closet that I can clean in one hour? It never occurred to me. Thanks for the intel. 

And you’re right. When we work together (at least indoors) we often get on one another’s nerves.

John E. writes:

I think you are right on with your description of men and women and housework you included in your response. I remember observing the way of women and housework in my mother and sisters growing up, and always admired it, and now see it again in my wife. If I want to get a housework job done efficiently and well, I sometimes imagine how my wife or mother would do it. It does not come naturally to me, and I do have to consciously keep myself from bogging things down in the theoritizing of how to fill a dish rack. 

Just a word on Randy B.’s original words. This is a delicate thing, because I don’t want to take away from what Randy B. said, but I do understand a little of where the men’s advocacy blogosphere is coming from, though I don’t appreciate their manner and methods. They perceive most women, if not all, taking a comment such as Randy B.’s and running with it, concluding about themselves, as Randy B. does, that they have it much harder in life than men; that their contributions to the preservation of humanity on the earth is much more crucial; that men constitute more of an annoyance in life than anything, they standing in the way of an entirely self-determined woman with their pitiful, but nonetheless essential 5% of the contribution to the preservation of the human species (and therefore not allowed to be considered 100% useless, but they still having the audacity to take much more than their share of the glory and recognition). For whatever reasons I think they perceive most women as thinking this way, and I can’t say it is without reason that they come to this conclusion. If most women have an admiration for men in general, as men, they do not let on that they do. I say in contradiction to their conclusions, that I believe that most women have a general admiration of men that reciprocates Randy B.’s general comments about women, though it is not mostly from observation that I conclude this. While I often observe men with an admiration for women in general it is not usually so with women toward men. It is mostly from my logical conclusion that God must have made it so, that women also love and admire men as they have been made, in spite of the fact that I generally do not see the evidence. 

I must say that your words, Mrs. Wood, on this website are an exception to what I have just said about not observing evidence. It is very clear from your words that you have a deep-seated appreciation and acceptance for how God has made men.

Laura writes:

I agree with John. Judging from their statements about men, most women have a superiority complex. This is aggravated by feminism. 

I think the phenomenon John observes is similar to the dynamic between parents and children. Parents will publicly praise their children, but children rarely publicly praise their parents. More often, they complain about them. In all hierarchies, the lower rebels against the higher. Where there is dependence, there is sometimes the desire to make sure those in charge do not ascertain their power. I don’t think this is a conscious strategy in women; it just is a natural reflection of their position in relation to men. Men are aware on some level of their innate power and defer to women by refraining from criticizing them.

The gratitude children hold toward their parents is so much an aspect of their being, they cannot always see it. I think it is similar to the gratitude women hold for men. For all their failure to express their appreciation in the sort of words Randy uses, many women succeed in action, with tender solicitude and loyalty. But here again, feminism has been destructive. It has fanned the flames of what in other times might have been trivial gripes and blown them up into full-fledged contempt for the male sex. In the area of housework, this can lead to outrageous arrogance, with women expecting men to perform to their standards. A psychotherapist recently told me that most of her couples therapy involves women with complaints about the way their husbands do, or fail to do, housework. The men appear to be unable to defend themselves and to tell their wives to knock it off. These women don’t need therapy, they need a firm response from their husbands and a little basic understanding about the differences between the sexes.

By the way, publicly or privately complaining about a spouse, except in an affectionate or jesting way, is a form of infidelity, even if the complaints are voiced to close friends. It’s important to note, as an aside, that women talk and think about interpersonal matters more. If men considered these matters as often, they might complain more.

Randy writes:

Since the focus of my post was a stated appreciation of women, I avoided stating the challenges. On the other hand, I can state unequivocally the tasks that I believe are not subject to discussion or argument in a relationship/marriage: 

Security & Discipline. At no point should a woman be involved in the security of the home, other than in the worst case when the husband falls or fails in that duty. I personally don’t believe a woman should ever have to raise a hand to their children. It is a horrible lot, but when kids act up I believe it reinforces the structure of a family to have the man be the sole authority and dole of discipline. The dad needs to have broad shoulders and carry the anger and resentment harbored by their kids for being that go-to guy. A woman’s arms are for love and nurturing. Don’t worry dads, if you do your job well (without anger) your rewards will come back in Spades when they leave home. For the several times I felt self-loathing for disciplining my eldest daughter, I am constantly comforted by her calls and e-mails of appreciation for helping her to develop into the woman she is today. 

On the topic of sewing: I would like to think my love for sewing came naturally. As a youth I was a Boy Scout, and my mother (although skilled and able) required me to sew my merit badges on my sash and patches on my uniform. This was not a punishment as I believed at the time, but an attempt to broaden my skill set, and develop an ability not often found in boys. After laboring with a needle and thread for a time, I asked my mother to show me how to use a sewing machine (efficiency of effort). In the Air Force as part of my training I spent 26 weeks in medical training, and the stitching came naturally. Unfortunately I have not passed on the knowledge of how to sew to my son, as I selfishly derive a pleasure and calm from doing it myself. This is a good wake up call, and I will start to work on making that change, and passing on this skill.

Laura writes:

Most of us tend to think of women as the natural seamstresses. Is there a single famous painting of a man sewing?  But of course, men have always stitched. They have sewn outdoors and as professional tailors.

Youngfogey writes:

Let me begin by thanking you for your work. I have been greatly encouraged by most of the material I have read on your blog.

Too bad I can’t say as much for your post titled “Men are Slow to Ripen.” The comments expressed by Randy typify the kind of self-hatred growing up in a feminist culture has inculcated. Men who believe that women are somehow superior to them are feminism’s greatest triumph.

The claim that women mature faster than men is a common trope we are all supposed to believe now. The truth is that women only appear to mature faster than men because the measures by which our culture determines maturity are determined by the generally feminist worldview of our culture.

Maturity in this culture typically means being willing to sit still in school, being slow to question the mindless demands of teachers and corporate bosses, and presenting oneself in a quiet, focused “professional” way. All of these things women excel at, and so are considered “mature.” At the same time, qualities like independence, physical risk-taking, entrepreneurship, trail-blazing etc. are punished in our school system and in the broader culture. Men who might tend to exhibit these tendencies quickly have them beat out of their personalities.

As for the maturity required to begin and sustain a family, let me remind you and your readers that somewhere near 70 percent of divorces are initiated by women. So, let’s not assume maturity comes naturally or quickly to women in this arena either.

Finally, let me say that I do not disagree with the notion that there is an epidemic of immature men in our society. I do not however think this owes to their natural “slowness” to mature. Instead, it owes to the fact that our society despises mature masculinity and trains boys to avoid it. Perpetual boyhood is the hallmark of a feminist culture.

Laura writes:

Thank you for writing and for these important statements.

You say: “Maturity in this culture typically means being willing to sit still in school, being slow to question the mindless demands of teachers and corporate bosses, and presenting oneself in a quiet, focused ‘professional’ way. All of these things women excel at, and so are considered ‘mature.’ At the same time, qualities like independence, physical risk-taking, entrepreneurship, trail-blazing etc. are punished in our school system and in the broader culture. Men who might tend to exhibit these tendencies quickly have them beat out of their personalities.”

I entirely agree and have made the same points in my posts about boys and education. I also agree that men and women mature in different areas and that it is inaccurate to say that women as a whole are more mature than men. Furthermore, feminism creates immaturity in women. It is a form of reverse development. Perpetual girlhood is also the hallmark of a feminist society.

Laura adds:

I would disagree with you, however, that the sort of deference and gratitude that Randy shows is a triumph of feminism or is in any way dangerous. Is Randy exhibiting self-hatred? Each sex should express more appreciation for the opposite sex than for its own. That is the honorable way to live, the way to happiness. The problem is not that men express reverence for women, but that women don’t express it for men. The solution is not for men to cease to think of women kindly, but for women to think of men kindly. I am not saying that men should not assert themselves. Obviously, I do not advocate that given my comments on male authority and criticism of feminism. Men should not defer to women in the real business of life. But the sort of admiration Randy voices doesn’t seem wrong or emasculating.

Any destruction women have caused to their marriages and to intimate relations has hurt themselves more than it has hurt men. It is better to be the victim of evil than the perpetrator of it. Men cannot conquer feminism by handing over their own souls.

Karen I. writes:

It is nice that Randy admires what his wife accomplished having children. I had the most horrific birth possible with my first, completely unmedicated until I was knocked out for an emergency C-section. As I was being rushed into surgery, a “code” blared over the hospital loudspeakers calling the resuscitation team to my operating room. Both I and the baby survived. Despite that trauma and the resulting staph infection, I went on to have another. Women are programmed to have some level of amnesia about childbirth after some amount of time. We simply do not remember it as vividly as the men do because if we did, we likely would not have more children.

Youngfogey replies:

You ask if Randy is expressing self-hatred. I would say that statements like these, “Regardless of all the things that are or are not fair, or how anyone feels, women have the much harder row to hoe,” and “If it were not for this disparity there is nothing that would provide the patience required to tolerate, and in many cases train a man to be worthy of the marriage a woman so gracefully entered into,” reveal a kind of automatic self-criticism that is common to many men in our feminized society. I would not want to go so far as to claim that Randy (a man I do not know) hates himself. I would go so far as to say that men’s self-hatred is the objective of feminism and the feminist propaganda establishment, and statements like these are entirely consonant with that kind of inward directed loathing.

Particularly galling is Randy’s repetition of that other feminist trope that men must be “trained” for marriage. What he should say is that men must be trained for marriage on women’s terms. It takes a long time for some women to break their husband’s spirit enough that she finds him acceptable. The euphemism for this crushing of the masculine is, of course, “training.”

Of course, women go “gracefully” into marriage. They are often taught that from the wedding day forward that they are the star of the show, the center of the family.

Not infrequently then, if they do not feel sufficiently worshiped, they are free to instigate a divorce as statistics show many women do. It’s easy to enter gracefully into an institution that is designed to cater to your whims and which you may leave at will with the full force of the state behind you.

You say that “Each sex should express more appreciation for the opposite sex than for its own,” and, “The solution is not for men to cease to think of women kindly, but for women to think of men kindly.”

These statements might be correct in an ideal situation, but to believe them in our current cultural climate requires ignoring the terrible consequences of feminism. I agree men should think kindly of women who are honorable. It is unclear to me, however,why average “mature” women who exploit men’s labor and manipulate their emotions, who destroy their families and murder their children should be thought of kindly.

In the end, unless men cease to spread the idea that women are superior to them, as Randy has done here on your blog, the situation will not improve. If Randy (or anyone else) wants to say that life holds difficulties for both men and women, fine. But, to spread the idea that women are men’s superiors undermines not only the best interests of men everywhere, but also those of women.

Laura writes:

You are ignoring the context in which Randy spoke. These are not the pages of The New York Times. Randy has written these words to a site that has called for women to renounce all forms of worldly power and to defer to men in all realms of life, including in the home. Furthermore, this position is not based on expedience, on a convenient strategy of getting the most out of men, but on the belief that the judgment of men is superior to that of women in many matters and that masculinity is primary. I agree with your assessment of the common glorification of women and of the misconceptions of women as always the superior in marriage. Randy was praising honorable women, not the average modern feminist. He specifically stated that he was judging on the basis of his marriage, that he was speaking of personal experience.

I think there is a natural tendency in both sexes to have some awe for what the other does well. Do you mean that this can never be expressed by men any longer, even at a site such as this one, held together by the shared belief that the superiority of women is a myth?

Randy writes:

Youngfogey has some valid points in a forum of open debate, but not in a static posting environment. Although my tenure on this site is relatively new, I believe my position to be solid and pro-nuclear family. I agree that the respect must be mutual. As to maturity, I more specifically direct my focus on that of raising a family, not how much better a man is than a woman in business. My hope was that point would have been clear by using my specific family experience at home. 

Laura initially cleared the air by suggesting that posting this might stir things up a bit, but the interchange is mature, and should spur additional debate.

I take great pride in being a man. I would never suggest that women are somehow generally superior to men, rather that they have strengths attributed to their sex, and that we as men should recognize and appreciate those strengths. If you read my position on feminism/socialism, you might develop a different perspective on what you define as my purported self-hate.

Youngfogey writes:

Perhaps you are right about the context.

Can we at least agree that when Randy writes that men are from Uranus (your anus) that he does not, at the very least, intend this as a statement of praise?

Laura writes:

I agree. It’s the sort of crude slight a feminist would make. It’s out of hand and doesn’t fit in.

This is depressing. I must not only defend men from women, but from themselves.

Youngfogey replies to Randy:

It is difficult for me to see how your initial posting which contained all the quotations I have already mentioned and the claim that men are from your anus is not meant to be derogatory toward men as compared with women.

If you did not mean to imply that women are superior to men, even if we limit the scope of that charge to the arena of family, then why argue that men must be “trained” by women for marriage etc?

Laura writes:

I think Youngfogey is mistaking social graces for serious argument. I took Randy’s statement as the sort of hyperbole one engages in repartée with the opposite sex. But given that this is a site for serious argument, Youngfogey’s points are valid.

The idea that women have a much harder row to hoe cannot be taken seriously.

Youngfogey writes:

Laura wrote:

“I must not only defend men from women, but from themselves.”

This is exactly my point. Men are taught to attack themselves, to internalize feminist self-hatred.

Laura writes:

Of course. Yes, I entirely agree, a thousand times over. Men participate in and embrace this sense of inferiority.

But traditional women acquire a sense of inferiority too. I like to think I can occasionally relax from vigilance, perhaps let in an exaggerated courtesy toward women from an ally, not from a man who embraces liberalism. Given that traditional women are often faced with serious disapproval from their family and friends, from their mothers and grandmothers even, a few crumbs tossed their way does not seem dangerous, an occasional word from men that what they do in the home is admirable does not seem emasculating to me.

In focusing on this simple appreciation, I missed what can fairly be called deprecation of men and exaggeration. 

Samson writes:

Men are most certainly NOT slower to ripen than women – not in our day and age, at any rate.

I almost didn’t bother to comment, because Youngfogey has already given you most of my thoughts, but I had to, because insisting that young women today are more “mature” than young men is really too much. I have got to believe that anyone making this argument has been away from the college scene for a long while. Fact is, while young males today are indeed behaving like “child men”, their female counterparts are unequivocally no better, and if you disagree, I invite you to spend an afternoon strolling around your local campus, taking in the sorts of topics that occupy the modern twentysomething female mind. Make sure you note the vulgar vocabulary (as if you’ll be able to escape it…).

Roger Devlin, in his “Sexual Utopia in Power”, says it very well:

Men of the older generation are insufficiently aware how uncouth women have become. I came rather late to the realization that the behavior I was observing in women could not possibly be normal—that if women had behaved this way in times past, the human race would have died out. The reader who suspects me of exaggerating is urged to spend a little time browsing women’s self-descriptions on Internet dating sites. They never mention children, but almost always manage to include the word “fun.” “I like to party and have fun! I like to drink, hang out with cool people and go shopping!” The young women invite “hot guys” to contact them. No doubt some will. But would any sensible man, “hot” or otherwise, want to start a family with such a creature?

This is the young “lady” of the twenty-first century. Family-oriented maturity, my hind end.

Randy writes:

The Mars/Venus/Uranus statement was meant as a closing joke. I don’t need to, nor am I trying to take men down; I was poking fun at myself and some of the stupid mistakes young men make early in marriage.

As for Samson’s point, yes, I am 49 and have been away from the collegiate lifestyle since 1988, so my position is factually dated. If I were to spend any time on a campus now I am sure I would be motivated to install heads upon pikes.