RANDY BROWNING writes:

This weekend slapped me into a reality for which I was not fully prepared. I was going through a couple sales magazines for two major department chains in the area, and was shocked at the subtlety of the change in poses. The women had achieved what looked to be masculine stature, while the men were deliberately posed in the effeminate. One of these retailers had obviously resisted the PC movement, but has recently taken to a 50/50 display of people of color (not reflected by the same percentages of residents in this state). 

Later in the weekend, I was at a car dealer looking to replace my wife’s vehicle, and I was presented with a few magazines with which to pass the time. As a wannabe weight lifter, I picked up a magazine that reflected success stories. I was horrified to find an entire section of “women” as represented by the modern-day weight lifting community. In my eyes these women were horrific, and many looked as if they had birth defects. All were in swimsuits, and several were not properly covered. Two of the women had so well defined their pectorals, that they looked as if they had two sets of breasts on each side. There was no longer anything close to feminine or attractive about these women, even their hair was cropped, or pulled back to make their faces look thin. 

There are qualities that separate men from women, and as I suspect by nothing more than a visual representation, I am afraid women are losing many of those traits. I want a woman to be soft, but full figured as women of days gone by. I want them to be mild-mannered and cordial, but not necessarily passive. I want them to have long hair, or at least long enough that they are discernable from a distance if not by the shape and contours of their body. I also want them to respect the roles that history has as examples that build a strong family unit. As males and females are designed to be attracted to each other, I expect a certain list of wants and needs from women, and feel it is my responsibility to provide them: assuming, not blubberous, well groomed, properly attired, and masculine but not obnoxious or barbarous. I would also expect a measure of kindness, and courtesy when it comes to showing them a measure of respect (chivalrous behavior). 

After 27 plus years of marriage, I am accustomed to a certain manner and behavior from my wife, and am expected to perform to a certain level and standard in kind. I am not in the “mating ritual dance” of trying to find a mate for life, but as a man I am still attracted to a certain level of dress, manner, and yes, shape from women who still draw my eye. 

Women are rapidly starting to lose their appeal to me. I listen to men I work with in cafeteria and hallway conversations, and the message is the same. Furthermore, we are told to look the other way, never offer appreciation of beauty, or even so much as a positive comment about attire. All the while women are falsely pushing up or modifying their breasts, wearing higher skirts, or lower cut blouses. If you look at women in the eyes they are offended by aggressive behavior, if your eyes are drawn to a low-cut blouse you can be accused of sexual harassment. I no longer get the sense that women are dressing for the long term when it comes to relationships, but are more concerned about tonight. If that is in fact the case, are women surprised by the lack of “good men” in today’s society? 

As I see it, men are in a short term lose-lose situation, but women are coming close to damaging their long term credibility amongst men, and the credibility is eternally tied to respect. If women lose the respect of men, and daily dress in a manner that expedites that lack of respect, what will the relationship be between men and women in the long term?

                                                         — Comments —

Karen I. writes:

It seems to me that men say they want “lovely” women, but really, when you read the statistics on the usage of porn, “loveliness” isn’t what they are really looking for. If women were getting the message that “loveliness” is what men were really looking for, they would be making more of an effort to look “lovely. What women are usually getting is a mixed message. If men want women who are “lovely”, they need to stop staring at the women in miniskirts and low cut shirts long enough to notice more modestly dressed ladies. They need to stop doing things like looking at porn or going to strip clubs then expecting their wives, girlfriends and coworkers to dress like sweet little angels. Most women are not at all comfortable in clothing that is low cut, sleeveless and short, but will wear such things if it is what gets the attention. And, sorry, but that is what gets the attention and women are well aware of it. If men want women to have more class, they need to do things that encourage classy behavior. Many times, women do want to please men, and their skimpy attire is often a misguided attempt at doing that. Plus, women have been sold the idea that “self-confidence” is shown by wearing skimpy attire. Women often believe (incorrectly) that if they don’t show some leg or cleavage, they are telling the world they are less confident than women who do dress that way. 

Rather than complaining about how women don’t look nice or feminine anymore, men should find a way to let a woman who is dressed nicely that they appreciate her efforts.

Laura writes:

 What women are usually getting is a mixed message.

Of course! Women will always get a mixed message. There will always be men who like sluttish dress. The point here is, many decent men don’t like to be surrounded by it. Generally, however, I think it is for women to give other women fashion standards.

They need to stop doing things like looking at porn or going to strip clubs then expecting their wives, girlfriends and coworkers to dress like sweet little angels.

But men, with some exceptions, don’t want to be married to porn stars or to be surrounded by them. Women shouldn’t wait for men to stop viewing porn. Even a woman who spent every hour surrounded by men with raunchy taste should dress to the standards of the absent few.

Plus, women have been sold the idea that “self-confidence” is shown by wearing skimpy attire. Women often believe (incorrectly) that if they don’t show some leg or cleavage, they are telling the world they are less confident than women who do dress that way.

Definitely. 

Women dress aggressively to show they are confident and they are often uncomfortable in skimpy clothes. They have been cajoled to be assertive and many men have encouraged their assertiveness. It is hypocritical for men to expect women to dress demurely while at the same time ooh-ing and aah-ing when they perform like men in a man’s world. An aggressive woman naturally dresses in an aggressive way.

Rather than complaining about how women don’t look nice or feminine anymore, men should find a way to let a woman who is dressed nicely that they appreciate her efforts.

I doubt Mr. Browning is complaining to individual women. It’s okay to write about it in a generalized way to correct the false impression that men are universally happy with sleazy dress.

Men are unwise to compliment women in the workplace for the reasons he mentioned. Women can’t have it both ways. They can’t expect to be complimented and then want the right to severely punish compliments they don’t like. 

A.M. writes:

About Mr. Browning’s comments, much can and has been said on this matter. I would like to focus on one thing he said: 

“If that is in fact the case, are women surprised by the lack of “good men” in today’s society? ” 

The women who claim that “all the good men are gone” are often actually the worst of the lot. I think of the women I’ve known who showed the most promise as a girlfriend and wife, and it becomes clear that they spent almost all of their youth in relationships spanning a year or more. This includes their college years. I can hardly imagine them complaining about the difficulty of finding a good man; they themselves proved the falsity of this complaint. The women who do say this believe it because it is convenient. It is an excuse for pursuing promiscuity instead of long-term monogamous relationships. “You think I don’t want to be in a relationship? Of course I’d like to be, but there just aren’t any good men around!” These women are not interested in men who would entertain relationships with them. 

Promiscuity virtually ensures a woman will sleep with men she hadn’t any hope of securing in a relationship, making relationships with “lesser” men bittersweet. These girls will see men who actively want a relationship as saps, as in their mind, any man worth his salt is basically a cad; if he wants to settle down with one woman before she does, he must be a failure at womanizing. “If he’s so ready to settle down, he must not have many options.” It’s an ironic form of self-hatred, where she resents the man for finding her worthy of commitment. It is the experience of myself and others, that if a man wants an exclusive relationship with a woman, it must be at her insistence, and not his own, lest he seem like a loser. She firmly believes that valuable men must be wrestled and harangued into commitment. Pollsters are finding that men are becoming like women, and women like men. 

Men are like a drug, in that the more exposed women are to men, romantically and sexually, the higher her demands will climb. The woman with less exposure to men, all else equal, is more easily excited by one. The man will seem like a scarce quantity, and she will hold him in higher regard for it. To a woman who spends all her time around men, gathering the attention of a man is no feat; she usually finds it a nuisance. I’ve been in extremely religious and avowedly secular milieus, and the effects of segregation by sex are marked, all else being equal. 

Also, I believe that women are quickly becoming the “meaner” sex, if they aren’t already. I am young, and remember my college years well. The paths on campus were routinely choked with pedestrian traffic, leading to a game of Chicken, where two people would collide unless one yielded. I found that compared to men, women were less likely to yield, content as they were to effectively shoulder check a man in their path. In crowded nightlife venues, at least of the genteel variety, I find men are quick to apologize for bumping into me and such. When a woman does it, she will glare as if it were my fault. If I am blocking a path, she will thrust her way through, while a man will politely ask to get by. She is more careless to begin with, because however slighted, no man will start a fight with her. It is a testament, in a way, to the Robert Heinlein aphorism that “an armed society is a polite society,” as well as the masculinization of women and the increased disdain for men. These may sound very trivial, but it is precisely at these fleeting moments where character reveals itself, where time permits no artifice. 

Mrs. Wood, your comments in general evidence an understanding of the minds and desires of men that is rare among women; you do not scold them for differing from women, as many women do.

Laura writes:

Thank you. I’ve learned from my own mistakes. 

You write:

Men are like a drug, in that the more exposed women are to men, romantically and sexually, the higher her demands will climb. The woman with less exposure to men, all else equal, is more easily excited by one. The man will seem like a scarce quantity, and she will hold him in higher regard for it. To a woman who spends all her time around men, gathering the attention of a man is no feat; she usually finds it a nuisance. I’ve been in extremely religious and avowedly secular milieus, and the effects of segregation by sex are marked, all else being equal.

Excellent.

I’ve never seen this obvious truth stated so well. 

A reader writes:

You say you haven’t seen it put so well.

I have.

Kipling, “The Ladies”

I’ve taken my fun where I’ve found it
And now I must pay for my fun
For the more you have known of the others
The less will you settle for one.
And the end of it’s sittin’ and thinkin’
And dreaming hellfires to see,
So be warned by my lot (which I know you will not)
And learn about women from me!

Mrs. P. writes:

To the men who complain about the lack of ladies in the world, I think you would do well to stop complaining and instead concentrate on being gentlemen yourselves. I have the same advice for women who wonder what happened to all the gentlemen in the world. I say to these women never mind and concentrate instead on being ladies. In behaving like ladies and gentlemen with others we encourage in others the very qualities we want to see in them. Although it is about courting, I believe the following helps to support my opinion. It is from Social Etiquette: or, Manners and Customs of Polite Society, 1896

Cultivate and manifest whatever qualities you would awaken. You inspire in the one you court the precise feeling and traits you yourself experience. This law effects this result. Every faculty in either awakens itself in the other. This is just as sure as gravity itself. Hence your success must come from within, depends upon yourself, not the one courted.

Laura writes:

The value of a good example is undeniable. But Mr. Browning’s good example will have no effect on the images in the magazines and ads he mentions. His example will probably do little to change the office culture and the dress standards of women in the workplace. He and other men should complain loud and clear.

Fitzgerald writes: 

Karen I. and Mrs. P. are typical of the response I hear from many women: blame men for the behavior of their fellow women. Deep down, I believe these type of women are too often complicit with feminism and the onslaught on malehood. They only do so subversively by not openly opposing and accosting their peers and their behavior. Rarely do I ever see a demure and modestly dressed women upbraid young girls and women for dressing and behaving inappropriately. Many fathers are highly feminized and are complicit in this mistakenly pushing their daughters into sports, “leadership” organizations, etc. in essence perpetuating maleness in them instead of protecting their innocence and encouraging femininity.

Men can and should behave with integrity and respect, but even if all men were to uniformly do so, I believe it would have little or no impact on female behavior. Regardless, to believe this were possible even in the most moral of times ignores the realities of human nature and in particular men’s innate attraction to women and fallen nature of mankind. Look to the garden.  Adam caved to Eve. This highlights the weakness of men. Men are called to rise above their fallen natures, but they must do so with the support of women and fellow men. If you attack and destroy maleness actively or are complicit via inaction then male behavior will quickly degrade in the large part.

Ladies, you must police other women and young girls in particular and support men in policing their daughters before things will improve. When I was young, the mothers of my parents generation commonly policed the dress and behavior of girls in church even going to the point of having them put on a coat or covering up. Not so any more. I work very hard at raising my boys to be respectful of the female. Sadly, it’s largely a hypothetical exercise as their are so few examples of young women whose behavior is worthy of respect making it quite difficult.

Laura writes:

I agree that it’s the job of women to set standards. (I think Karen and Mrs. P. would agree that women have responsibilities to enforce standards.)

Women are the moral guardians of society. This work will never show up in a paycheck. But it’s important and vital.

Mrs. P. writes:

I’m sorry that I offended some men here with my comment. I should have worded it differently. I did not mean it as a criticism necessarily. My intention was to encourage readers to think out of the box and approach this problem in a different way. I was born in 1940 when more ladies and gentlemen were in existence. My recollection of the times was that men, generally speaking, were able to bring out the best in women by being gentlemen. The same was true of women. A woman who behaved as a lady with men appealed to their better selves. 

Kindness begets kindness. Respect begets respect. This is why I believe it is important for us to behave as kind and respectful ladies and gentlemen. It has an impact on those around us and it can have a ripple effect changing the behavior of those far removed from us. 

Polite society needs to be restored. We have allowed ourselves to become rude. This is especially true of blogs. I am appalled at times by what I read. The art of being a gentleman and a lady needs to be restored. As individuals attending to our own behavior, we can contribute to that restoration. It is promising to me, because efforts are underway in many private schools and organizations to do just that with our children. Young people are being taught polite and respectful behavior toward others especially toward the opposite sex and adults. They are being taught etiquette. They are being taught the social graces. Hopefully this along with much needed dress codes in schools and the workplace will result in dress that is respectful and does not offend. I believe we are trying to turn a page in our society. 

Again, I am sorry for ruffling some feathers.

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